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This forum is intended to discuss naming conventions of enemies, locations, etc found. For game specific names, the names should appear as they appear in some sort of literature for that game whenever possible. This is generally more informative and accurate than other names we could assign.
Here is the general priorities I think make a good name to use for a game specific enemy appearance in order:
- If the enemy has a name in the game itself, like an in game bestiary or appears when you hit it, this name should always be used.
- If the above doesn't apply, if the enemy has a name in the English manual for that game, then this name should be used.
- If the above doesn't apply, if the enemy has a name in an English official guide to that, the name should appear as it does in that guide. For example, the NES Game Atlas, Game Boy Nintendo Player's Guide, Nintendo Power, the Millennium Official Castlevania 64 Strategy Guide, and the Prima's Legacy of Darkness Official Strategy Guide should be used.
- If none of the above qualify, then the naming convention gets a little trickier and open for interpretation, but here's the order of precedence I think should be followed:
- If the same enemy appears in any other game where criteria's 2 or 3 above was used to select the name for that enemy, the name should be the same as that. Thus, "classic" enemies will have "classic" names.
- If an same enemy appears in a game where criteria #1 (way above) was used, then that name should be used. In the event there's more than one game that names the enemy directly, pick the name from the game that translates closest to the original Japanese. For instance, Aria of Sorrow uses names closer to the actual Japanese names than Symphony of the Night does, so the Aria of Sorrow name should be picked. Try to pick the most "generic" name available.
- If none of the above works, then either a descriptive name should be used or a translation of the Japanese name (from a manual or official guide) should be used. If the Japanese translation is super awkward or doesn't have any meaning in English (such as an unfamiliar proper name for the enemy or something that just doesn't translate), it should be avoided. If it works as a descriptive name, it should be used, perhaps reworded to "sound better" if appropriate. If the Japanese name isn't known or doesn't work, pick a name that describes the enemy. Names from other websites such as the Castlevania Realm can be used, but only if they actually describe this particular enemy (some names are global that describe a class, but don't describe this particular enemy well).
Please note that we should generally "not" try to "standardize" the game specific names so that they appear the same for all games, even if the enemy is the same (unless official English names are not available for that game). We should also not use other web sites as gold standards, such as the Castlevania Realm or a FAQ, as these are often unofficial names the authors thought would be good to use on their site.
Japanese names should appear in parentheses in enemy info boxes or tables when they differ from English names. These names should be translations when possible in the infoboxes, rather than phonetic spellings.
--Reinhart77 01:22, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
The order of enemies in the Bestiaries should be as follows:
- If the enemy is "numbered" in an in-game Bestiary or enemy description list, that order should be used.
- If the above doesn't apply, then the order they appear in the manual should be used.
- If the above doesn't apply, then the order they appear in a table in a US or Japanese guide should be used.
- If the above doesn't apply, then the order they appear in the game should be used.
- If the above doesn't apply (such as if there's multiple paths), then just pick an order (from whatever the order is already in this wiki, Castlevania Realm, or random), and stick to it.
Changing orders of enemies should be avoided as much as possible since you have to update a lot of pages that reference the template so they don't show the wrong enemy. Also, it requires updates to the Forbidden Library wiki, which has bestiaries that are in synch with this wiki and will for a while. --Reinhart77 01:28, April 23, 2010 (UTC) Naming and ordering conventions are listed at the top of a bestiary page for that particular game. There's also often a discussion page for that bestiary and/or its associated enemy data template.
Game By Game Summary
Here is a summary of games that do not have in-game names for them and the sources that we should use for determining the English names (the Japanese names can always be added in parentheses), links are to the bestiary page:
"Classic Non-Dracula-X Games"
- Castlevania - Use names as appears in its manual
- Vampire Killer - Use names as appears in European English manual
- Haunted Castle - Use names as appears in Instruction Manual when possible
- Simon's Quest - Use name as appears in the manual when possible
- Dracula X - Use name as appears in NES Game Atlas when possible, use other Non-Dracula-X classic names otherwise, use Metroidvania names when that's not possible, case-by-case otherwise
- Super Castlevania IV - Use non-Dracula X classic names when possible, case-by-case otherwise (favor near-Japanese names from other games)
- Castlevania: Bloodlines Bestiary - Use non-Dracula X classic names when possible, case by case otherwise (favor near-Japanese names from other games)
- Castlevania Chronicles - Use names from the original Castlevania games when possible, Classic names when not possible, Metroidvania names when not possible
- Legends - Manual when possible, case-by-case otherwise (favor near-Japanese names from other games)
"Classic Dracula X Games"
- Rondo of Blood - Symphony of the Night names when possible
- Dracula X - Symphony of the Night names when possible
- The Adventure - Use names as they appear in the manual if possible, use Game Boy Nintendo's Player Guide otherwise
- Castlevania II: Belmont's Revenge Bestiary - Use names as they appear in the manual if possible, use Game Boy Nintendo's Player Guide otherwise
- Adventure ReBirth Bestiary - Use Belmont's Revenge names when possible (its more recent), Adventure names when not possible, Symphony of the Night names when not possible
- Castlevania 64 - Use Millenium Guide
- Legacy of Darkness - Use Prima's guide
- The Arcade - Use near-Japanese English Metroidvania names when possible
- Boku Dracula-Kun - Near-Japanese English Metroidvania names when possible
- Kid Dracula - Near-Japanese English Metroidvania names when possible
(enter your thoughts here)
I am disgusted at this problem. I think this guideline is good. SOTN's enemy often shows up in the rondo and XX. Should unite these to SOTN's name? Or, should translate the Japanese rondo and XX guide book?--Kiyuhito 04:55, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
The issue about using SotN names is getting a little thornier. On the one hand, Symphony of the Night names deviate from original Japanese ones quite a bit and in some cases just seem "made up" and not accurate. On the other hand, SotN is "the" standard Dracula X style game that most people outside of Japan would have played and be familiar with. Also, while the names in games after SotN have been more faithful to the Japanese names, Order of Ecclesia seems to have reverted back to using the English SotN names, giving them more credibility as the "official" English name for a given enemy. I personally would like to see Rondo of Blood and Dracula X names appear as they do in Japan or the more Japanese-like games like Aria of Sorrow, considering no English names have been given to most of these enemies for these games in particular and the Japan names have appeared in English games for most enemies in at least one game, so they're not totally unfamiliar. Then there's the issue discussed earlier that Rondo of Blood was localized on a UMD that contained the original SotN and its enemies names. It would be natural for anyone who only has knowledge of the games that are on that particular UMD to call the enemies in Rondo of Blood by their SotN names (I think we decided it was okay to use SotN names for RoB for that reason in that discussion). I'm personally uncomfortable with using SotN names for those games, but there's a case to be made either way. We could probably use the SotN English names and then put the Japanese names in parentheses for RoB and XX. Any translation work from a Japanese guides for these games would be appreciated. We could wait until enemy data tables for those games has been created for these games before actually applying the naming convention to the individual enemy pages. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?--Reinhart77 06:29, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
Well, I, as a one who have "grown up" on the SotN names, as the appear in most of the guides of MrP Realm, tend to prefer the SotN names, much more than the ugly names of the Japanese translation. This is why OoE is one of my top CV games, it actually use most of the SotN names (except Thornweed )-:) Until now, I have always thought that the enemy names of the Classicvania gamnes could be "free given", unlike the Metrovania games, where there are guides for the enemies in the games themselves. I guess I have never known that the translation of the japanese guides has a "legal position". I personally think that when translators translate something from outsider language to oocal language, they should sometomies change some of the words so it'll be suitable to the local language. The translators of these forgotten guides made a bad work in some of their translation, but this is only my opinion. Maybe we can get to a compromise. post here the translations of these japanese guides, so I could know them once and for all.Bone_Golem 13:06, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
I think any direct translations of a game's enemies can be added to the Discussion page of that game's Bestiary page. Usually, there is more than one way to translate a given name. We should try to pick a translation that was used in another game like Dawn of Sorrow, or Portrait of Ruin if that name is an accurate translation. This chosen translation could then be added in parentheses in the RoB/DXX game in the bestiary, and later in the enemy data template. For convenience, here is the talk page for Rondo of Blood (it's also where we had decided earlier to use SotN names and put Japanese names in parentheses for that game) and here is the talk page for Dracula X. --Reinhart77 16:08, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, I was doing an already known question. Thank you.--Kiyuhito 16:59, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
I added a game-by-game summary above.--Reinhart77 17:13, April 23, 2010 (UTC)